There is no doubt that we have all, at one time or another, left a worship service and sensed that something extraordinairy had occurred. We have all also left services and wondered what all the fuss was about. It is our tendency make our reactions to the worship gathering the standard by which we judge whether or not worship takes place. The problem of this line of thinking is that the worshipper becomes the object of the service rather than God. Our planning our preaching, our musical style, our particular “liturgy” serves us, rather than allowing us to serve God corporately. Now to be sure, we do reap the benefits of what takes place in worship, and our feelings of awe and sense of God’s presence bring us great joy, but they are not to be the standard by which we measure worship. It is what we do in worship, the offerings that we bring, our response to his greatness and mercy, what we say to him….how we serve him and his body, that is what is expected of us. This is what I spoke of in the last posting…how do we approach worship. It is not in the clothing, the decor, or other trappings but rather our purpose and preparation for the meeting. Some questions. Are you discovering and developing your gifts to serve the lord and the congreagtion in worship? Is it your purpose to use your gifts “For the strenghtening of the church”? (1 Cor. 14:26) Are you aware of how what you do in worship affects the brothers and sisters in your midst? These are very important questions to ask of yourself as you present yourselves in worship.
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ray on The Trinity and Worship Karen Holland on To Serve or Be Served? Karen Holland on To Serve or Be Served? stevenesbitt on To Serve or Be Served? Karen Holland on To Serve or Be Served?
Ray,
Your last question, “Are you aware of how what you do in worship affects the brothers and sisters in your midst?,” really strikes home. When I am in a worship service my focus needs to be on God, and not on the people or things going on around me. I am guilty sometimes of looking around, seeing what this person, or that person is doing, instead of keeping my focus where it should be. But I never thought about how this might be affecting others in my midst, whether believer or non-believer. If someone is looking at me as I “scan” the church, they could easily get the impression that I am only there to “check things out,” that I am not there to worship God. On the other hand, if they look at me and see that I am intent or focused on the music or the sermon, then they may just ask themselves, “What or who is the focus of his attention.” This could lead them to search for this same focus, which, of course, would lead them to our Lord and Savior.
Good thought provoking question, Ray!!
Ray – thanks for your comments. Your thoughts on the people being the object – and maybe the consumer(?) – of the service worship are intriguing. In his book Engaging with God (InterVarsity Press, 1992), David Peterson addresses a similar subjective view point of the corporate gathering: “Is worship, then, essentially an experience or feeling? Is it to be identified with a special sense of the presence of God, or with some kind of religious ecstasy or with expressions of deep humiliation before God? Are there special moments in a Christian meeting when we are truly ‘worshipping’ God? Are church services to be measured by the extent to which they enable the participants to enter into such experiences? Such a subjective approach is often reflected in the comments people make about Christian gatherings, but it has little to do with biblical teaching on the matter. . . . Worship must involve certain identifiable attitudes, but something is seriously wrong when people equate spiritual self-gratification with worship!” (p. 16)
As you said, we certainly reap benefits of being in God’s presence and rightly so; recipients of his grace, energy, power, and strength we go as the church into the world to love and serve the Lord. But our view and practice of edification in the corporate gathering must be more than simply achieving our own spiritual self-gratification.
Peace!
Is it wrong to want the joy that comes with the presence of the LORD, His beauty in worship? Is this seeking self gratification?
What was that one thing David asked of the LORD?
Psalm 27:4-6
One thing I ask of the LORD, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple. One thing I have desired of the LORD, That will I seek: That I may dwell in the house of the LORD All the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the LORD, And to inquire in His temple. For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion; In the secret place of His tabernacle He shall hide me; He shall set me high upon a rock. And now my head shall be lifted up above my enemies all around me; Therefore I will offer sacrifices of joy in His tabernacle; I will sing, yes, I will sing praises to the LORD.
A simple example to consider:
A father returns home after a business trip. Upon his arrival, his young children drop everything they are doing and eagerly run to see their dad. All they could think about at that moment was satisfying the desire of their heart to see their dad and to enjoy his company. How would a father react to this? Would he rebuke his children for being self-centered? Or would seeing their excitement and joy at His presence warm His heart and bring Him pleasure? This father would undoubtedly feel honored and thrilled at such a display of affection.
Isn’t the father glorified by the joy and delight his children take in his presence?
Put a different spin on the above example. How would the father feel if the children instead quietly, without feeling, walked over and greeted him out of a sense of duty?
Which honors or glorifies the Father more — the greeting out of pure joy at His presence or the greeting out of duty?
Karen Holland
Karen
No one would argue yoru point and the cry of the Psalmist is an example of the heart of the worshipper regardless of the setting. I am however limiting my comments to the corporate worship setting in which we have a obligation to the body. It is in this mutual selfless giving in our gatherings, that the Lord beautifully meets the needs of his body through the wise distribution of gifts to the worshippers. My point is, if we come to the body ready to receive, never willing to serve we miss one of the jewels of public worship. “There are different kind of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are dfferend kinds of service but the same Lord. There are different kind of working but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation fo the Spirit is given for the common good.” I Cor. 12:4-7
More thoughts …
What is your definition of worship?
One definition is “to prostrate ourselves, to bow down and to kiss the Lord.”
Ps 2:12
Worship begins when we present our bodies to the Lord as a living sacrifice (Rom 12), but is not consummated until we worship Him in spirit and truth at the altar of our hearts. Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice is an act of obedience, whereas worshiping Him in the spirit is an act of adoration (John 4). Worship comes from love.
The example of David seems to say that it is an activity of the heart.
Some see worship as the activity of responding to God’s presence — (beholding His beauty)
Temple worship was a public corporate event
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Is the knowledge of worship greater than, equal to or less than the experience of worship?
Karen –
Thank you for continuing the conversation! It’s exciting to see how we all think on this indispensable activity of our Christ-following lives.
Maybe we are all talking about the same thing, just different aspects of it, eh?
You say, “Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice is an act of obedience, whereas worshiping Him in the spirit is an act of adoration.” Should there be a division between these two things – obedience and adoration? Why do we create this dichotomy? Or, who has told us to create this dichotomy?
And, “worship comes from love.” What is love? Does love sometimes involve doing what might not “feel” good?
What I’m trying to get at is that perhaps emotion is not the watermark of worship. That certainly doesn’t mean we exclude or deny emotion. It does mean, in my opinion, that we evaluate worship in light of emotion with other objective criteria that the bible has laid out for us.
Grace and peace!
I see no division between obedience and adoration.
I think you need both. Serving out of obedience or duty is different than serving out of love or adoration.
Its a question of the heart again — which honors the LORD more service out of duty or service out of love for the LORD and one another?
This is the same question I asked before …
Which honors or glorifies the Father more — the greeting out of pure joy at His presence or the greeting out of duty?
*****
Seems Jay that you have rasied another question — is experiencing His presence emotionalism? Is that what we are judging worship by?
I think an evaluation can be made if our emotions are not at all involved in worship — if we honor with our lips but not ouir hearts.
Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
This command apply to worship too. If you worship with your whole being — emotions are included.
***
‘Is Your Worship Too Emotional?’
Is a question that has pointed a finger at me in the past …
Here is something I wrote about it …
2 Samuel 6:21 … “I will celebrate before the LORD.”
‘Is Your Worship Too Emotional?’ This is a question I’ve often heard asked in recent years. At times I have been personally criticized for being too emotional during worship – usually after the Lord has deeply touched my heart and tears are streaming down my face. Some would say that this is emotionalism rather than a true and whole reaction to worship of the Lord Jesus Christ. Some would say that strong displays of emotion should be avoided during worship because it leads to emotionalism which is being ‘manufactured’ – by musical styles or performances. This emotionalism, however, is very different from allowing our emotions to be involved in our worship. King David faced this same criticism.
More:
http://www.geocities.com/karen_trustlord/Articles/Emotion.html
More …
Which honors the LORD more service out of duty or service out of love for the LORD and one another?
This goes back to David’s one thing (Ps 27).
I believe beholding the LORD’s beauty is key. If you truly behold His beauty you will be changed. It’s by this process that your love for the LORD and others grows — this moves to service out of love.
David is a good example — he did this privately as well as corporately.
A man after God’s own heart. (Acts 13:22)
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This leads to another question:
Can you behold the beauty of the LORD in worship without sensing His presence?
This question applies to private as well as corporate worship ….
And is directly related to how we serve.
I would like to address several things I have read from previous posts. I think what everyone has said has been uplifting and useful and that is a great thing. I am so glad that we can talk in open dialog and learn from one another. This in itself is an act of worship. Sharing our knowledge with one another so that we may grow in faith and teach to others what we have learned.
I think that worship is many things, but that the question presented in this thread is the corporate worship of the body of Christ. meaning when one goes to Church on a Sunday morning or a Wednesday night or whenever people may gather, the scriptures read, and the word preached. (I might also add to that list and the sacraments distributed but that may open an entirely new set of worms!) I would lie to throw out there an idea that yes we are to serve each other in worship through ministry, but that the primary purpose of worship together as the body is to come togeather to be served. What I mean when I say this is that the worship or litergy is were a person comes to once again be revitilised so that they may live in the world. In the worship of the Body Christ comes and serves us himself in the words that are spoken (and maybe the bread that is broken). It is through this comfort that we as believers are then able to go out into the world to serve once more. It is because of what we hear and experience in worship that we are enabled to serve others in our community and in our world. I would like to submit that anytime we serve “the lest of these” we are worshiping. So in summary corporate worship is about being served so that we may serve. Then after corporate worship is when we worship in the truth of service to each other and the world.
I would like to chime in on the topic of evaluating worship based on emotion. I do believe that an emotion pull can be important for worship, however I caution against it being the soul measure of weather worship is successful. I would like to submit that worship is successful when the scriptures have been opened the gospel has been preached and the people have been served. Now this may mean a emotional response to a sermon or to the liturgy or music used in the congregation that one is worshiping in. However, I believe it important to note that worship is successful because the Holy Spirit is present. So even when “you” do not feel a thing you can be confident that “your” worship was valid and a success.
I would also like to touch on the service due to love vs service to to duty topic. It is true that most people serve. The question that was brought up was are people serving because of a sense of duty or out of love and which is more important. Saint Augustine states that all men have the law of God written on their hearts. In this passage and the parts that follow Augustine goes on to explain that all know what God requires and most do it out of fear or out of duty, but neither of these will “save”. What saves is the power of the Gospel the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. With this Good News we are then set free to love. It is only after the power of the gospel sets us free that we as humans can truly love one another and serve. This is the case because once set free we serve because of love not because of fear. It is important to note that one can tell a tree by it’s fruit and that “faith without works is dead.” So if we have been set free we will be serving. So to answer the question we are both to serve in worship because of love, and be served so that we can be renewed in that love.
Thanks all for the conversation, and I hope that my rant is understandable.
Steve
Steve
Thanks — your post is understandable. I agree we need both to serve and be served.
1 Cor 12:7
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good …
Seems we need to receive the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit before we can share them (serve) with others.
We need to receive directly from the LORD — we also need to receive thru others. To me it’s sometimes easier to serve others than to allow them to serve me.
One more thing : )
I came across this today; it made me smile. : )
Remember Mary who sat at Jesus feet (beholding Him)? Turns out only one thing was necessary …
Luke 10:41-42 “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
Mary was also the one who anointed the feet of Jesus with costly perfume, an extravagant act of worship. When critised for this Jesus replied:
Mark 14:6 “Leave her alone, why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.”
: )